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Topic: Guilds Post reply

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Alpha tester Posted on: 19-06-2008 13:12:50
Posts: 114

Will a guild HQ be a building?
It think 30(50 max) members is enought,because you can have an aliance 10X30=300 and i think that is a solid amount of players.
Alpha tester Posted on: 19-06-2008 14:37:10
Posts: 151

yes something like that ,
I think its better that if 75%
(or 80% we can still see how much)
of an alliance accept a guild can join,
That all guilds need to accept it, thats a bit to much I find
Developer Posted on: 19-06-2008 15:46:06
Posts: 3379

Only the guild leaders have to accept at the moment.

Yes depending if we keep the name guilds, if we go for kingdom a castle will be the HQ.
Alpha tester Posted on: 19-06-2008 16:45:02
Posts: 151

yes, but the system will be the same.
Moderator Posted on: 19-06-2008 21:57:32
Posts: 461

the system stays the same, only the names change
Alpha tester Posted on: 25-10-2008 23:19:39
Posts: 107

you should limit guild creation to premium players and premium players. you could also list the top 10 guilds by ensign on the left side of the play page ( alot of white space there ) in a veritical column and on the right side you could list players on line in a random fashion ( premium players who have purchased a battle shield ( you could set up 50 or to choose from on a list...public domain knight crests from medieval times )...the ten shileds for online subscribed players would just change every 5 minutes or so and would not be the top ten but perhaps the ten who just logged in...their name would be below the shield.
GameMaster Posted on: 13-11-2008 22:39:21
Posts: 1447

I'm working on something...
Memo: check the growth-equation and see if it was simplified correctly [complete]
Memo: check the max-members (HQ) [complete]
Memo: f(rank) is a percentage? [no, it is a fraction]
Memo: edit&post [ok]

GameMaster Posted on: 14-11-2008 05:29:51
Posts: 1447

Description: The maximum Empire-size is determined by the leader's guild headquarter level. However, the players themselves need to increase their ranks for the Empire's actual member-capacity to reach this theoretical maximum (obtainable only when all members are at the "Emperor" rank).
This encourages teamwork, and allows BasTijs to easily play with the numbers if the Empire-sizes are too high
Also, an Empire consisting mostly of low-level players will not be able to approach its maximum Empire-size (determined by the guild headquarter upgrades) until the players gain ranks by completing objectives!

I believe that the max is currently 60 members?
Basing it on the guild headquarters realllly hurts the leader (I've experienced it personally).

The following information is incorrect. All up-to-date algorithms are on a simplified Excel-file.

How about...
A guild initially starts with 3 maximum members (including the leader).
Players can increase this by increasing their rank (so that players increase the maximum-size, not the leader's upgrades). The number will round to the nearest whole number. So if I want the max to be 50... Then (50 - 0.5 - 3)/(50 - 1) ≈ 0.9490
Where 50 is the max, 0.5 is the rounding-value, and 3 is the starting-value (for no bonuses), and 50-1 is the number of players with maxxed-rankings needed to acquire the 50th member (so that the 50th member will not increase the alliance-size over 50 due to rounding-down).

An Emperor/Empress increases the max alliance-size by (50members - 0.5members - 3members)/(# of Emperors in alliance) ≈ 0.949members/Emperor which allows a maximum of 49.5 players (rounds-up to 50).

Ranking ≈ Size Bonus to Empire per Member at this Ranking --> (Size Bonus to Empire per Member at this Ranking)*(Max Number of Members at this Ranking in an alliance consisting of all players at this Ranking) + 3
Knight ≈ 0.722 --> 9.5 members
Baron ≈ 0.821 --> 14.5 members
Count ≈ 0.881 --> 21.5 members
Duke ≈ 0.900 --> 25.5 members?
Grand Duke 0.926 -->39.5 members?
King ≈ 0.942 --> 43.5 members
Emperor ≈ 0.949--> 49.5 members
(0.5 rounds-up to the nearest integer)

I propose this because I get annoyed upgrading buildings when few people contribute... So increasing the max-size of your Empire really makes the gameplay automatically encourage co-operation (which is good, because co-operation is a skill I would like to see expressed more in real-life and games).

let y = max number of members if everyone is at the Ranking, so
y = size bonus*(y-0.5)+3
size bonus = ?
size bonus = (y-3)/(y-0.5)
Example, if we want the max-size to be 100 members, then y = 100 and size-bonus (per maxxed-ranked player) = 97/99.5 ≈ 0.975members/Emperor

Idea: We don't have to use my idea, but we don't have to not use it!!
What if we set y-3 = y-g(x), where g(x) is a function of x, and x corresponds to the guild headquarters? We know 1<=x<=30, so Ie. g(1) = 3 and g(30) = 33 then at a level 1 guild headquarters, the above equations apply, but at a level x headquarters, the size-bonus for Emperors would be (y-g(30))/(y-0.5) = (50-33)/(50-0.5) ≈ 0.343

Or even more fun:
We know: size bonus = (y-3)/(y-0.5)
y = f(rank), where rank a rank from serf to Emperor/Empress. Therefore f(rank) = number of players who can join an Empire which consists solely of players of the said rank. We need arbitrary f(rank) such that f(serf) < f(squire) < f(knight < ... < f(Emperor). Ie. Max Empire-size increases when a member gains a rank.
Now we want two things:
1) The guild headquarters to affect the maximum size of the Empire.
2) The rankings of each player affect the maximum size of the Empire.
3) A newly-founded alliance has a maximum of g(x) members, where x is arbitrary (for the sake of simplicity, assume g(x) = 3 for all x).

let "size bonus" = h(rank)
h(rank) now represents [this is "a function at the value of 'rank'", not a name. Units of h(rank) be "max Empire-members per member of said-rank"]
let g(x) be the maximum number of members for a newly-founded alliance (I suggest 1 to 4)
If we have y = f(rank) then we can substitute h(rank), g(x), and f(rank) into the equation:
size bonus = (y-3)/(y-0.5)
As we know that: "size bonus" per member of a certain rank = h(rank)
3 equals g(x) (as g(x) is currently arbitrary)
y = f(rank)
h(rank) = ((f(rank)) - (g(x))) / ((f(rank)) - 0.5) where 0.5 is a constant necessary to STOP rounding-errors from raising the maximum member-capacity of an Empire consisting of f(rank) members above f(rank) (as this breaks our definition of f(rank), which is our definition of y; the max number of members if everyone is at the same "rank").
We are now done our analysis.
Or wait - not yet!
We said that the ranking of each player affects the maximum Empire-size, but we said that the maximum Empire-size is actually determined by guild headquarters level!
The above equation only applies for one level of the guild headquarters. As we upgrade the guild headquarters, the f(rank) will increase. E.g. If want a level 30 guild headquarters to never contain more than 300 members, then we change f(Emperor) to 300.
There is a simpler way to do this.
Wait - no, there isn't.
Thus, we need another variable for the level of the guild headquarters.
Ok, for simplicity, I am setting g(x) to zero. Nevermind; this makes it too difficult to found an Empire (since you can only recruit one member, no matter your headquarters level).

So we only need to (1) set a value for g(x) [I recommend a constant between 1-4, or g(x) can correspond to the level of the headquarters], (2) set a value for f(rank), and then (3) get the server to calculate h(rank) and multiply h(rank) by the number of members in the Empire at the "rank" and add-up the values for all ranks (Serf to Emperor/Empress), and (4) save the rounded-integer (rounded to the nearest whole-number) on the database, which (5) becomes the maximum member-capacity of the Empire!

Simple as 3.14!

Sources of error: The code may produce rounding errors. Therefore we may need to reduce the magnitude of our constant 0.5 (in our above equation) to ensure that the code does not round-incorrectly (ie. 0.5 becomes 0.4999999).
Also, g(x) must be greater than 0, or our equation does not work (we cannot have negative alliance-sizes).

let k = 300 members
This lets the coder decide on the value of:
g(x) ≈ 3
f(Serf) ≈ (undecided)
f(Squire) ≈ (undecided)
f(Knight) ≈ 0.203*k/(guild HQ level)
f(Baron) ≈ 0.303*k/(guild HQ level)
f(Count) ≈ 0.443*k/(guild HQ level)
f(Duke) ≈ 0.523*k/(guild HQ level)
f(Grand Duke) ≈ 0.803*k/(guild HQ level)
f(King) ≈ 0.880*k/(guild HQ level)
f(Emperor) ≈ 1.00k/(guild HQ level)
The "≈" approximations are based on the assumptions that:
1) "biggest Empire at a level 1 guild headquarter = f(Emperor) when guild headquarter is level 1 ≈ 50
2) biggest Empire possible = f(Emperor) when guild headquarter is level 30 ≈ 300
3) rankings of each player affect the maximum size of the Empire.
Super Recap: h(rank) = ((f(rank)) - (g(x))) / ((f(rank)) - 0.5)
you can have an aliance 10X30=300 and i think that is a solid amount of players.
Ok, so let's use that for the value of "k" (see above).
I'll set the biggest Empire possible at a level 1 HQ to be 50, which gives us all the decimal numbers...
Who has read the bolded-parts of the above post?

- Thanks for asking!
GameMaster Posted on: 14-11-2008 18:28:23
Posts: 1447

Edit: I think g(x) should equal 1 + level of guild headquarters
So when an alliance is founded, member-capacity is like 2 + 0.7 = 3.
And whenever you upgrade the guild HQ, you can recruit more members (having an Empire-size up to (1 + maximum level of guild headquarters) members greater than your actual size).

Sorry for the abstractsomeness above.
Developer Posted on: 14-11-2008 19:54:23
Posts: 3379

Thnx, will read it this weekend when I have some more time.

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